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suggestions [2024/06/30 22:06] – unhandledsuggestions [2026/02/02 05:05] (current) – [Player Economy Needs Tweaks/Reworks] unhandled
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 ==== Mob Density ==== ==== Mob Density ====
 +(Looks like Rahu Desert was redesigned in some capacity so this might not be as much of an issue anymore. I need to look at Gazluk and see if it's gotten any better.)
 So, I've avoided saying anything about this for a long time because I realize this is a game that is a work-in-progress and even having any suggestions here might not really help if I'm not positive about them, but there's a few zones where mob density is such a problem it's almost impossible to grind mobs that I actually want to try leveling some skills on. So, I've avoided saying anything about this for a long time because I realize this is a game that is a work-in-progress and even having any suggestions here might not really help if I'm not positive about them, but there's a few zones where mob density is such a problem it's almost impossible to grind mobs that I actually want to try leveling some skills on.
  
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 Gazluk is the other zone where this is what I would consider a huge problem. It's just not simple for a level 70 to contend with both the elemental problems of this zone as well as the mob density problems, especially with regards to Orc Camps where the walls and aggro range make playing here unpleasant. One issue is enough to cause many players to forgo grinding in the zone, but the combo of both just makes it not fun. It's possible though that the purpose of Gazluk is to just serve as a repository for the dungeons in this zone as well as the Yellow Crystals, in which case I guess I understand the design decision, but it'd be nice if there were a good way to still fight some of these mobs safely. Gazluk is the other zone where this is what I would consider a huge problem. It's just not simple for a level 70 to contend with both the elemental problems of this zone as well as the mob density problems, especially with regards to Orc Camps where the walls and aggro range make playing here unpleasant. One issue is enough to cause many players to forgo grinding in the zone, but the combo of both just makes it not fun. It's possible though that the purpose of Gazluk is to just serve as a repository for the dungeons in this zone as well as the Yellow Crystals, in which case I guess I understand the design decision, but it'd be nice if there were a good way to still fight some of these mobs safely.
  
-The current iteration of Kur is actually worse than the old one in this respect, too. There's not really areas where you can farm safely and no easy "routes" to avoid mobs, so I regularly pull aggro even while on a horse. Kur is easy content for a lvl 80 though, so I consider this less of an issue, but lower level and even mid level players probably really struggle with the mob density here enough that they just farm Kur Tower or Wolf Cave instead of playing on the overworld.+The current iteration of Kur is actually worse than the old one in this respect, too. There's not really areas where you can farm safely and no easy "routes" to avoid mobs, so I regularly pull aggro even while on a horse. Kur is easy content for a lvl 80 though, so I consider this less of an issue, but lower level and even mid level players probably really struggle with the mob density here enough that they just farm Kur Tower or Wolf Cave instead of playing on the overworld. As of release, 1.0, Kur aggro and mob density continues to be a huge problem and needs addressed.
  
-The Fae Realm isn't horrible, but it can be dangerous for a higher level 60ish player leveling here to unlock content for when they are 70. Again, the aggro range increase with no explanation really hurts players.+The Fae Realm isn't horrible, but it can be dangerous for a higher level 60ish player leveling here to unlock content for when they are 70. Again, the seeming aggro range increase with no explanation really hurts players.
  
-Povus is actually one of the better zones, but here it's the tree density that is an issue with respect to the mobs. I was a player that took advantage of the 0 tree draw distance bug. I get that the zone wasn't supposed to be exploited in that way, but now that we have forced trees, I will mention that it's very difficult to see if I'm in a safe position to engage now in Povus. (and while we're on this topic, parts of Gazluk are pretty much unplayable now that I'm forced to draw trees).+Povus is actually one of the better zones, but here it's the tree density that is an issue with respect to the mobs. I was a player that took advantage of the 0 tree draw distance bug that was patched a few years ago. I get that the zone wasn't supposed to be exploited in that way, but now that we have forced trees, I will mention that it's very difficult to see if I'm in a safe position to engage now in Povus. (and while we're on this topic, parts of Gazluk are pretty much unplayable due to graphics lag now that I'm forced to draw trees).
  
-One zone that is bad but where it's not a major problem is Sun Vale. For some reason this zone has a much more agreeable aggro range compared to these other large zones, and it makes for a much more enjoyable experience. Except for the SE island with the roaming Ranlon, but at least there, there's an excuse. You're supposed to be sort of "invading" their territory, so it makes sense for it to be more difficult and for there to be widely roaming mobs. Sun Vale is an example where mob density can be high and it's not too much of a problem. I wish every zone 40+ was more like Sun Vale.+One zone that is bad but where it's not a major problem is Sun Vale. For some reason this zone has a much more agreeable aggro range compared to these other large zones, and it makes for a much more enjoyable experience. Except for the SE island with the roaming Ranlon, but at least there, there's an excuse. You're supposed to be sort of "invading" their territory, so it makes sense for it to be more difficult and for there to be widely roaming mobs. Sun Vale is an example where mob density can be high and it's not too much of a problem. I wish every zone 40+ was more like Sun Vale where mob density makes sense in the places where it is "bad".
  
 Again, I don't see how mob density got out of testing without anyone ever mentioning it. It's so bad that I have told friends that leveling overworld ends in Eltibule and Sun Vale and after that they are going to be leveling from 40 to 80+ in dungeons only. I've avoided making a leveling guide on this site because I keep hoping these issues are going to be fixed, but I'm realizing they probably never will be, sadly. :( Again, I don't see how mob density got out of testing without anyone ever mentioning it. It's so bad that I have told friends that leveling overworld ends in Eltibule and Sun Vale and after that they are going to be leveling from 40 to 80+ in dungeons only. I've avoided making a leveling guide on this site because I keep hoping these issues are going to be fixed, but I'm realizing they probably never will be, sadly. :(
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 ==== Player Economy Needs Tweaks/Reworks ==== ==== Player Economy Needs Tweaks/Reworks ====
 +With full release and the economy changes, this has become even more of a thorn in an otherwise great game.
 +
 One of the reasons why an auction system is used in most games is because sometimes you just need a specific item for a specific reason, and having it be available for a somewhat unreasonable price is still perfectly fine if you don't want to or can't reliably hunt it down yourself. One of the reasons why an auction system is used in most games is because sometimes you just need a specific item for a specific reason, and having it be available for a somewhat unreasonable price is still perfectly fine if you don't want to or can't reliably hunt it down yourself.
  
 There are fundamental issues with the ability for the player-based economy to thrive in PG right now.  There are fundamental issues with the ability for the player-based economy to thrive in PG right now. 
  
-The first and biggest fundamental problem is that some otherwise highly tradeable items don't have a robust economy like mushrooms, woods, skins, and etc because slots for selling would be better used by higher value goods.+The first and biggest fundamental problem is that some otherwise highly tradeable items that can't have a high markup don't have a robust economy like gems, cotton, fish, mushrooms, woods, skins, and etc because slots for selling would be better used by higher value goods. Gem and Cotton prices will actually get worse now due to the 2026 changes, mark my words.
  
 The second problem is that some otherwise highly tradeable consumable items also don't have a robust economy because the cost to run a vendor conflicts with the fact that you cannot stack the particular item to be sold very well. Almost all foods and Snacks fall into this category. Gourmand pricing does exist for certain rare foods, but that's about it. I think you might see more players retain the game if they could focus on eating while getting their first combat skills to level 70 instead of nearly every player being required to level Cooking because the economy is such that a player actually must focus on leveling Cooking because they can't just easily or readily buy food from players capable of making it. The second problem is that some otherwise highly tradeable consumable items also don't have a robust economy because the cost to run a vendor conflicts with the fact that you cannot stack the particular item to be sold very well. Almost all foods and Snacks fall into this category. Gourmand pricing does exist for certain rare foods, but that's about it. I think you might see more players retain the game if they could focus on eating while getting their first combat skills to level 70 instead of nearly every player being required to level Cooking because the economy is such that a player actually must focus on leveling Cooking because they can't just easily or readily buy food from players capable of making it.
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 If we can't have auctions, then at least I'd like see some sorts of commission-based solutions. Maybe a player wants a pair of level 50 purple Max-buffs Rabbit/Priest leather gloves and they are willing to pay 5k councils for them. So a ticket gets generated to fill that request. In order to fulfill the request, I have to pay a small fee, say, like 500 councils (or 10%), to reserve the request for one hour and then fill it by making the gear. If we can't have auctions, then at least I'd like see some sorts of commission-based solutions. Maybe a player wants a pair of level 50 purple Max-buffs Rabbit/Priest leather gloves and they are willing to pay 5k councils for them. So a ticket gets generated to fill that request. In order to fulfill the request, I have to pay a small fee, say, like 500 councils (or 10%), to reserve the request for one hour and then fill it by making the gear.
  
-Otherwise it stays up for a while on a board. Or it goes back to the board after I fail to make it.+Otherwise it stays up for a while on a board. Or it goes back to the board after I fail to make it within the hour.
  
-Project Gorgon is the only MMO that seemingly goes through hoops specifically to make sure the players have difficulties trading with each other. I realize this is probably just because a focus on the programming aspects hasn't been made in this area yet, but maybe it is a well-developed enough game at this point to have a need to focus on this aspect of it now.+Project Gorgon is the only MMO that seemingly goes through hoops specifically to make sure the players have difficulties trading with each other for basic stuff like skins/cotton. I realize this is probably just because a focus on the programming aspects hasn't been made in this area yet, but maybe it is a well-developed enough game at this point to have a need to focus on this aspect of it now.
  
 I do get that some of the complexities of crafting/selling is probably to make Retail Management a unique and cool skill. And that's great, too. I just hope more is coming, and I do understand why it wouldn't be great to advertise more is coming, too, I just want this to be my advocacy to make sure more is coming because I do care about the game so much and I think the economy is probably the least favorable aspect of the game, while crafting is actually quite awesome in comparison. I do get that some of the complexities of crafting/selling is probably to make Retail Management a unique and cool skill. And that's great, too. I just hope more is coming, and I do understand why it wouldn't be great to advertise more is coming, too, I just want this to be my advocacy to make sure more is coming because I do care about the game so much and I think the economy is probably the least favorable aspect of the game, while crafting is actually quite awesome in comparison.
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 The whole idea of renting a player vendor stall, for example, is kind of weird, IMHO. The fact that it gets more expensive over time also is confusing, but I get that there are prime real estate slots for vendors and that there might need to be incentives to have them move out. I also have parents that are antiquers, so I'm well aware of the tendency for veterans to buy something low from someone else and then just resell it with a higher markup just because they have better foot traffic. :D The whole idea of renting a player vendor stall, for example, is kind of weird, IMHO. The fact that it gets more expensive over time also is confusing, but I get that there are prime real estate slots for vendors and that there might need to be incentives to have them move out. I also have parents that are antiquers, so I'm well aware of the tendency for veterans to buy something low from someone else and then just resell it with a higher markup just because they have better foot traffic. :D
  
-Sorry if it seems curt to just request an auction economy, but this is the one single thing about this game I simply do not understand. I cannot readily sell staples like Quality Phlog or Cotton directly to players that I know could use them, instead I have to craft a box that costs leather and wood resources and doesn't last more than 90 minutes and half the time I have to guess what a reasonable price is from players that are overcharging (player stalls) or underpaying (work orders). With rare exceptions, many of these go without getting a single sale so I instead use them to give away items instead.+Sorry if it seems curt to just request an auction economy, but this is the one single thing about this game I simply do not understand. I cannot readily sell staples like Quality Phlog or Cotton directly to players that I know could use them, instead I have to craft a box that costs leather and wood resources and doesn't last more than 90 minutes and half the time I have to guess what a reasonable price is from players that are overcharging (player stalls) or underpaying (work orders). With rare exceptions, many of these go without getting a single sale so I instead use them to essentially give away items instead. 
 + 
 +When I go to price items in the stalls, it needs to be high enough that some high level with unlimited resources doesn't just buy it completely out to sell at their stall for an inflated price, but not so high that newbies can't buy it to level their crafting skills. Market makers are required for a healthy economy, they buy regularly at low prices and sell at higher prices and, in doing so, are absorbing times of high supply and high demand, and charging more and more for stalls only means less people contribute to a healthy economy. We're not being greedy, we're being rewarded for our time and market risk, just like market makers do in the real world. I've regularly tried to offer some low pricing for the first few purchases of Cotton in the hopes that some new Textile Creator scoops them up faster than a vet with night unlimited funding. Trying to hurt these people only really ensures prices will rise, especially for new players trying to learn new skills.
  
-When I go to price items in the stalls, it needs to be high enough that some high level with unlimited resources doesn't just buy it completely out to sell at their stall for an inflated price, but not so high that newbies can't buy it to level their crafting skills. +It'd be cool if we could set pricing for items below 500 hours of game time, maybe as a solution, or have a stall that lasts longer than 90 minutes to sell a bunch of a single type of good. I think the Vendors are a good idea, they just need to have higher longevity maybe based on how many other vendors are in the same area or have been used by the same player or something.
  
-Also, the downside to selling some goods for reasonable prices is that we have to rent a vendor and use an alt that goes to a Poetry Jam to be able to optimally sell things. Not a huge problem, but new players don't really know to do this.+Also, the downside to selling some goods for reasonable prices is that we have to rent a vendor and use an alt that goes to a Poetry Jam to be able to optimally sell things. Not a huge problem, but new players don't really know to do this nor do they have the time to do it.
  
 There are some staple items in game that simply MUST have an auction for there to be a robust player economy. Specifically, I'm thinking Animal Skins, Cotton, and Phlog fall into this category, actually. At the very least add in an auction for these and see if the playerbase thinks it's a bad thing after like, three months. If everyone hates it, I'll admit it was a bad idea, but I think certain staple goods *should* be auctionable and I think players will love it if auctions existed for such staple goods, too. There are some staple items in game that simply MUST have an auction for there to be a robust player economy. Specifically, I'm thinking Animal Skins, Cotton, and Phlog fall into this category, actually. At the very least add in an auction for these and see if the playerbase thinks it's a bad thing after like, three months. If everyone hates it, I'll admit it was a bad idea, but I think certain staple goods *should* be auctionable and I think players will love it if auctions existed for such staple goods, too.
  
-In short, I think some of the barriers to player trading that exist in PG don't make sense. This game is already played by a bunch of us on the autistic spectrum, so we honestly need more incentives and facilities to directly trade with other players than less, IMHO. :D+I have rambled on long enough, but in short, I think some of the barriers to player trading that exist in PG don't make sense. This game is already played by a bunch of us on the autism spectrum, so we honestly need more incentives and facilities to directly trade with other players than less, IMHO. :D
  
 I do realize a full-fledged auction system would be difficult to code well, but I do think it's needed. I do realize a full-fledged auction system would be difficult to code well, but I do think it's needed.
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 I'm not sure how difficult this would be to code, but since there's a ton of gems and I've been playing the game for 7 years or more and still don't know, I'm going to assume it's at least Medium difficulty. I'm not sure how difficult this would be to code, but since there's a ton of gems and I've been playing the game for 7 years or more and still don't know, I'm going to assume it's at least Medium difficulty.
  
-==== Mob Ranged issues ====+==== Mob Ranged issues, Poison OP ====
 Again, unfinished game, so I understand this might still be something that needs worked on. Again, unfinished game, so I understand this might still be something that needs worked on.
  
 If a player can't do it, a mob shouldn't be able to. There's some spots in the game where mobs can shoot through walls and such. Also, ranged poison damage, especially for certain mobs, seems to be much higher than it should be. For example, the Orc camp archers in Povus seem to be easier to deal with than the Rahu archers around Pask because of the ability to hit through walls plus the poison/debuff they do. If a player can't do it, a mob shouldn't be able to. There's some spots in the game where mobs can shoot through walls and such. Also, ranged poison damage, especially for certain mobs, seems to be much higher than it should be. For example, the Orc camp archers in Povus seem to be easier to deal with than the Rahu archers around Pask because of the ability to hit through walls plus the poison/debuff they do.
  
-Poison dmg itself might just be really high, btw. In Rahu sewers if there's more than two slugs, I regularly run the risk of dying even at combat level 85+. Maybe they are supposed to be this hard though and maybe we're supposed to run with Poison Resistance potions most of the time. This combined with high regen is a combat-killer for most players though. I'd like to think my base resistances are already pretty high on certain builds, though. It's kind of embarrassing to die to poison mobs because of the stacks.+Poison dmg itself might just be really high, btw. In Rahu sewers if there's more than two slugs, I regularly run the risk of dying even at combat level 85+. Maybe they are supposed to be this hard though and maybe we're supposed to run with Poison Resistance potions most of the time. This combined with high regen is a combat-killer for most players though. I'd like to think my base resistances are already pretty high on certain builds, though. It's kind of embarrassing to die to significantly lower level poison mobs because of the stacks.
  
-I'm putting this under hard to code because I don't know +I'm putting this under hard to code because I don't know how you balance poison appropriately. I thought maybe getting Iocaine Resistance high enough would matter, but it really doesn't seem to help with survival if I'm getting hit by more than one slime/slug. Maybe the goblin that gives an accuracy buff could give you a choice between poison/nature resist and accuracy?
  
 ===== Easy to Code, Desirable but not Highly ===== ===== Easy to Code, Desirable but not Highly =====
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 ===== Old Ideas ===== ===== Old Ideas =====
-These are old ideas I had that have mostly been fixed by other game changes or by me understanding a bit more of how the game works. Some of them are also just "I give up" changes that I'm moving here, because they were changed for the better, but not necessarily the way I thought they should be.+These are old ideas I had that have mostly been fixed by other game changes or by me understanding a bit more of how the game works. Some of them are also just "I give up" changes that I'm moving here, because they were changed for the better, but not necessarily the way I thought they should be. Others were changed in ways that were probably better than I recommended.
  
 ==== Gossip System ==== ==== Gossip System ====
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